Why I am against the present proposal on Water Street

 

Proceeding with this will add approx. $70 million to the present city debt of approx. $170 million, bringing it to approx. $240 million! Adding this much will likely cause our credit score to change, and result in higher rates. To service the present debt, we spend approx. $6.3 million annually. Adding the $70 million will cost around another $3 million. Add the operating costs of $1.19-1.4 if the lofty projections are reached, we will need another $4.5-5 million to balance the budget! We saw how tight things got this year,what will TB look like with this added? City staff should start saving,they'll be coming for your pay checks!

 

During the recent election, Shane Judge brought up that the province forecasted Thunder Bay to lose some 15,000 in population by 2030. He also brought up,there would likely be another school closure. Hammarskjold is at some 750 students with a capacity of 1400, and I've been told there was apparently discussions of merging it with Superior? LU is expected to be down 200 students in residence next year. At its peak capacity Fort William Gardens could legally accommodate slightly over 5000 spectators. Its largest crowd was just over 6000 for a Thunder Bay Twins Allan Cup Championship Game #7 in 1985. During its peak years, Thunder Bay's average age was much younger than it is presently, so it was possible to pull good numbers. The present capacity of FWG is around 3800, with LU crowds this season being around 2200, having dropped from better than 2500. With an aging and shrinking population, does this bode well for building a facility with a capacity 1900 seats larger? I think not!

 

I believe there are certain "Economic threats" facing Thunder Bay that should also factor into this argument, some unique to TB some not. As previously mentioned, our shrinking population, how will this affect our tax base, or our ability to afford to pay for the services & facilities we now have? With an Ontario government that has spent the last decade on a spending spree, the province has been warned to get the spending under control but to date have done little. The time will come when it must be dealt with,how will that affect us? Government practice based on previous behaviours of higher levels, could likely be, down loading to the municipalities & job cuts. The top ten employers in TB are government, I think that makes us very vulnerable to those cuts. For more then a century TB Tel has been a great asset for our city and remains such. Is the annual $17 million dividend sustainable long term? In business, record profit can be followed by a record loss. Should this dividend shrink or worse, what would be the result?

 

Hobbs says we need to replace FWG at some point. That would be true, the proposed facility does not! FWG will be rquired to exist in one shape or another to satisfy the long term lease with FW Curling Club as the heating system is apparently located in FWG. To alter the facility to change this, or to get out of the lease by building a replacemnt facility would no doubt be expensive. I've supported Innova Park, or a"central" location such as LU or the CLE. A location that included facilities accomodating FWCC and possibly PA Curling Club and the available floor space for shows that it would provide would likely work far better then the present proposal and its limitations.

 

 

 

Where will the Ice Caps be, Winnipeg or Thunder Bay?

It was recently announced that the Winnipeg Jets AHL team would be relocating to Winnipeg and, according to GM Kevin Cheveldayoff, he expects it too be a long term relocation. In Thunder Bay, a letter of intent (expiring March 31/2015) was signed, with the AHL team locating here should a proposed new facility be built. Thunder Bay Mayor claims he has been told that should the facility be built, that the AHL team will still be coming here? Makes you wonder if one city is being played for a sucker here? Winnipeg or Thunder Bay?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/ahl-team-still-destined-for-thunder-bay-mayor-says-1.2993982

In March 23 2015 Winnipeg Sun

What about T-Bay?
I have been watching with interest your American Hockey League farm team and their imminent return to Winnipeg. The city of Thunder Bay is proposing to build a new Event Centre. The Mayor of our city states that if we build this new facility your team is moving to Thunder Bay. True North has signed a non-binding letter of intent to move here for the 2017 season if this Event Centre is built. This letter of intent expires on March 31, and as funding is not in place the city will be asking all parties including True North to sign an extension until funding is secured. I am a little confused as GM Ken Cheveldayoff of the Jets has stated that they are going to dig in and make Winnipeg a home that lasts a long time for their AHL team. I am interested to see if True North signs this extension and if Thunder Bay was to move ahead with a new Event Centre will True North sign a binding contract to move their team to Thunder Bay.

Ray Smith, former Director and PR for the Thunder Bay Twins Senior A hockey team.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/03/20/letters-march-23-2015

Press Conference - Concerned Citizens of Thunder Bay March 23 2015

 

 

Good Morning,

1.  Second  phase of Golf Links Road being debentured for approx. 8 million dollars.  This could have come out of the TB Renew fund instead of directing all of the 23 million in this fund towards the proposed Event Centre.

2. The average homeowner is looking at an extra $114 dollars on their water bill to cover infrastructure upgrades.  A  report prepared for city council say Thunder Bay must spend about $170 million over 2 decades on capital projects plus another $10 million in the next 5 years for new storm sewers.

The report says increasing the surcharge would allow the city to stop using debt for large sewer projects.

A Thunder Bay sewer rate surcharge may spike to help replace pipes.

It is beyond me how we can rob the gas tax fund over the next 10 years of about $21 million dollars  to help  pay for a proposed Event Centre when our infrastructure is crumbling and taxpayers have been stretched to the limit. 

3.  Mr. Commisso states in his funding report that the city should receive $9.5 million for naming rights and private sector funding.  The average arena in the OHA is about $1.5 for naming rights that is paid over a 10 year period. 

Do you recall that the skateboard park at the  Marina was going to raise $100,000 to help offset the cost of the $1 million dollar skateboard park?  They were going to sell bricks with the sponsors name being recognized.  You can go see just how many donators they got. There is a pathetic little  wall with a few names.  They sure and hell didn't raise anywhere close to $100,000 dollars. 

4. Interesting to see the taxpayers are going to be on the hook to pay for the relocation of the Hydro Sub Station should the proposed Event Centre move ahead.  Thunder Bay Hydro plans to ask the Ont. Energy board to approve a fee increase from city taxpayers to cover this expense. 

Anyway the list goes on and on as city hall continues to increase the city debt, taxes, waterbills and as they cut many of the services they shouldn't be. 

Ray

Why Aren't These Questions Being Answered?

The big claim of the “Event Center” champions, including the CJ, is that it will "Revitalize" the former PA downtown. Which of the previous “Revitalization projects” have succeeded, Ont Govt Bldg, Casino, Victoriaville, Courthouse? FW Gardens has brought several thousands, to the former FW downtown for various events and look at the sorry state it is! What will the next failing "Revitalization" project be when on-line shopping further cripples retail and the need of retail space shrinks further? This project does not replace FW Gardens, it will still need to exist in some form due to the long term FW Curling Club lease. A central location which included curling facilities could also accommodate the PA Curling Club in the plan and, would keep the place active during winter months. Water St is a location that has driven the cost off the radar, with its $114 plus price tag simply outrageous! There was lots of support for a new facility, though as the price escalated, support clearly dropped off! At $80 million, Innova Park had 2000 parking spots, is closer to the cities better hotels, highways, airport and LU with supporting convention facilities etc. Why has there been an unrelenting push for this facility at the Water St location from the beginning? Why has the public been shut out of making any decisions on it? Why was the consultant never asked the verifiable track record on their last ten project forecasts?  St Catherines ON can build a facility for $50 million, but we need a $114 million facility here, after its been scaled back, and with other costs hidden by being shifted to other departments? Why has there never been any research done to see how much of the community has the disposable income to support this facility? Why does Hobbs say if we want sewer, water & roads improved we better be ready to pay more, yet the city’s decision makers have no problem forcing this through? The sewer, water and roads are the justifiable priority and would quite likely qualify under the Build Canada Fund, which this facility does not! Why aren’t these questions being answered if there is nothing to hide? What is being hidden from the people who’ll pay for this “Mistake by the lake”?

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/editorial/letters/2015-03-23/event-centre-questions-remain

Do Your REAL RESEARCH Thunder Bay

Sports facilities are not the "Economic Leaders" supporters of them like to claim! There are several links in this piece that tells the Real Truth, not Consultant's truth!

"Chicago's professional sports industry—which includes five teams—accounted for less than one-tenth of 1 percent of Chicago's 1995 personal income. Baade further commented that even when compared with the revenue of other industries, professional sports teams contribute small amounts to the economy. He noted, for example, that "the sales revenue of Fruit of the Loom exceed[ed] that for all of Major League Baseball (MLB), while the sales revenue of Sears [was] about thirty times larger than that of all MLB revenues."
 
"Estimates of income that will be generated and, hence, spent in the region are often overstated. Most of the "big" money in sports goes to the owners and players, who may or may not spend the money in the hometown since many live in other cities"
 
"Very little evidence exists to suggest that sporting events are better at attracting tourism dollars to a city than other activities. More often than not, tourists who attend a baseball or hockey game, for example, are in town on business or are visiting family and would have spent the money on another activity if the sports outlet were not available"

These are but a few tidbits of information from this article & links. While it is primarily about Pro Sporting facilities, if scaled back it represents a clear picture of Thunder Bay's folly! Remember, the primary tenant will be an AHL Professional hockey team!

http://www.unitedformissouri.org/newsroom/myths-half-truths-stadium-proposal