Supporters of Water St as a location of a new multiplex have prepared a handout on why they believe it is the best location. I have responded to all their points, to refute the reasons they give, and why Innova Park is the Superior location! This is their handout, as of April 21/2012.
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Downtown Waterfront Multiplex
Economic
– Between Greenfield/downtown sites, the downtown sites did significantly better for economic reasons because they had the 'Critical Mass'
– Innova Park is in an early stage of developing. Private development in the area is expanding south to Innova Park. Recent developments include, Days Inn (in second expansion), mini mall with 5 Forks restaurant @ Oliver Rd/Golf Links Rd. ,chiropractic clinic, grocery store ,pet food store. Thunder Bay Country Club is commencing a major condominium project.
– Based on the consultant's comments the Downtown site would have “Medium-Good” economic spin off from the beginning where as the Innova site would have almost none till the long term (5-10 years).
– The “Economic Benefit” realized by this facility being built at Innova Park, would be for the whole city, not just “downtown” businesses. With the placing of the facility in Innova Park, it would trigger the development of Innova Park benefitting the city finances two fold. When the lots are sold, the “City of Thunder Bay” recovers its investment in Innova Park, and receives property taxes on the sold properties. The sale of lots helps to offset the cost of building, and the property taxes will help to offset operating costs of the facility. This is of great benefit to all residents of Thunder Bay with helping to keep tax increases to a minimum. There is no comparable benefit from the Water Street location.
– The downtown site would support local bars, restaurants, shops that are already set up and paying taxes.
– All businesses in Thunder Bay pay taxes, there have already been tens of millions of taxpayer dollars spent in the former downtown PA. The Ontario Govt Building, The Casino, Marina Park . HOW MUCH MORE ARE TAXPAYERS EXPECTED TO SPEND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE DOWNTOWN MERCHANTS? The perception this facility will make the former downtown PA a vibrant locale, is debatable, downtown FW has deteriorated greatly, even with FW Gardens bringing people downtown.
History
– Based on the consultants comments “A majority of new arenas were being built in downtown and a majority of successful ones were downtown”
– Thunder Bay is unique, different from most other cities, it was two cities to be joined as one. To suggest that either of the two former downtowns is presently “Downtown” is a great misrepresentation. The Oliver Road/CLE Fairgrounds truly represents Thunder Bay’s “Downtown”.
– Of the 3 brownfield sites in Ontario, none were able to provide an economic stimulus to the area where as the downtown sites ranged from small-great
– Several downtown arenas named by the consultants, are suffering financially. The support of the hockey crowd is of great importance to the success of an arena. The overwhelming choice of Thunder Bay hockey supporters is Innova Park.
- The John Labatt center in downtown London revitalized the downtown and is making money year after year.
– London Ontario draws from a much larger and denser surrounding population, then Thunder Bay. Their OHL team can draw competing teams fans, who are located a couple hours away.
Cost
– The downtown site was originally expected to be around 80 million dollars, the lowest of the 6 original sites
– The cost of the proposed facility has already escalated in cost to the most recent figure of $100 million. The Innova Park price could not have increased by this amount with no changes having been made. The original cost figure given for Innova Park included the cost of a parking lot, no parking facilities were included in the Water St figures, thus the perceived lower cost. Since the original cost was given, a parkade costing $16 million has been added to Water St, thus making Innova Park the least expensive of the two sites.
– The Innova arena would be built on land worth 2 million dollars. The downtown site is only $750,000.
– With the cost of soil remediation on the site of hydro sub-station tagged at $3.5 million, the Water St. site is not $750,000 but, $4.25 million! Quite a difference in cost!
Interesting that they value the Innova property at $2million, this is the asking price for the site,not what the city spent on developing the site. Also,why is land for the waterfront condo project only (fair market value) valued at $690,067.50, after the amount spent by the city preparing the site, and the Innova Park $2 million? Does something sound strange here?
– While the underground parking is expected to be $13 million, it doesn't need to be cleared of snow and can provide easy access for box owners, disabled, elderly and pregnant mothers. The Innova site would need 8 million spent on a parking lot which would need to be cleared of snow and monitored by police (new search area)
– The cost of an announced parkade figure given was $16 million, underground parking for $13 million, either bring the cost higher than Innova Park. Additional snow removal will still be required at Water St, a winter storm during an event would create hazardous situations for both motorists and pedestrians. New tax revenue from Innova Park can help offset any extra snow removal costs.
– The downtown site doesn't need any upgrade work to the road system, where as Innova needs to be 4 laned and a set of lights would be added to the expressway to alleviate traffic (If MTO approves)
– Golf Links Road has already been designated to be widened to four lanes, with a new traffic signal at the Golf Links/Central Ave. Intersection. This would have Innova Park surrounded by four lane roads on all four sides.
Parking/Traffic
– The downtown site would have 400 less cars at the games and 8% more people would ride transit
– Water St is to hold 5700 fans, at 4 per vehicle, 1425 spots would be needed. With a total of around 900 available spots, where would the other 500 plus park? Transit travels down Golf Links road already, transit routes are updated as required to accommodate new stops, as was done with TB Regional. Lots of bike paths presently exist in the neighboring Lakehead University and Confederation College area. Both Lakehead and Confederation are within walking distance of Innova Park. It is quite likely there would be increased support for LU Thunderwolves, who are likely tenants for a new facility.
– The longest walk someone would have in the downtown site is 12 minutes, where as the Innova site is 9. Difference is that downtown you have stores and resturaunts and Innova is a parking lot.
– There are several restaurants in the Intercity area within a five minute drive from Innova Park. Such restaurants include, The Keg, Applebee’s, and Montana’s. The majority of the cities better hotels are located 5-10 minutes from Innova Park, including Valhalla Inn, Travelodge, Victoria Inn, as well as a new Hampton Inn, and Marriott. Other supporting facilities include Lakehead University, Confederation College. These hotels and supporting facilities are of significant importance when hosting conventions, trade shows, etc.
– It would take around 10-15 minutes to get from the building and out the parking lot in Innova, its about the same in the downtown except your leaving from a larger number of streets.
– The walk from the front door is actually less than five minutes on flat terrain, to the furthest point in the parking lot! This walk will be easier on patrons of all age groups, 50 % of Thunder Bay’s population is over 50 years of age. Water St to the parkades are uphill, which will likely exclude many patrons. Why are such facts being misrepresented?
Vision
– The city designated the downtown north core as the 'entertainment district” and to quote the consultant “Arenas that are built on there own tend to not do so well, its better when they are a part of something bigger”
– These designations seem to be “designations of convenience”. The former FW downtown was designated as “Government”, if so why is the Ontario Government build in downtown PA?
– With the huge amount of money put into Marina park it would be good to continue to additions
– After tens of millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent in downtown PA, it has failed to spur new private sector developments, to generate new tax revenues for Thunder Bay. Has that previous spending created a good “return on investment”? Absolutely not! The Water St location of a new multiplex, is very "restricting" , and "limiting" in providing options for any type of future expansion or growth! This is a "defining project" for Thunder Bay, that can either unite us or divide us. We need to answer the question, "Are we “one city”, Thunder Bay? , or is the legacy left from this project one that keeps us divided for the lifetime of the facility!
" Great developers never,limit their options,nor restrict their ability to grow" Donald Trump
